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FORUMS PROFESSIONNELS
WINDEV, WEBDEV et WINDEV Mobile |
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| Débuté par Guy Ross, 02 juin 2005 03:58 - 14 réponses |
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Posté le 02 juin 2005 - 03:58 |
For all those folks that are awaiting WebDev9 English edition, I have recently asked PC SOFT for certain info on the WebDev engine deloyment etc so here are the facts I have obtained
WebDev comes with a developer engine allowing 10 connections for testing purposes
The actual deployment engine is sold per server and needs to be fully installed on your Web Server machine along with Apache or IIS etc. This means u will need full rights to your Hosting machine which probably translates to having a dedicated server perhaps co-located
At the time of my inquiry they could not give a list of Hosters that were providing the engine by default like u get with PHP & ASP etc, except for in France and Canada...
WebDev engine is only necessary if you want the full rich feature set available under WebDev's technology. If u output to PHP u wont need it, just the PHP gubbins that your Host probably already has. So if u want near desktop richness u need the WebDev engine
Although WebDev Engine is available for Linux and Windows, they are not the same on functionality. The windows implementation is much fuller, with the Linux implementation at this time not supporting PDF output nor reporting
Have fun
Make money
http://www.greatxchange.com |
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Posté le 02 juin 2005 - 05:05 |
Is there a price mentioned for the WebDev deployment Engine?
Glenn
For all those folks that are awaiting WebDev9 English edition, I have recently asked PC SOFT for certain info on the WebDev engine deloyment etc so here are the facts I have obtained
WebDev comes with a developer engine allowing 10 connections for testing purposes
The actual deployment engine is sold per server and needs to be fully installed on your Web Server machine along with Apache or IIS etc. This means u will need full rights to your Hosting machine which probably translates to having a dedicated server perhaps co-located
At the time of my inquiry they could not give a list of Hosters that were providing the engine by default like u get with PHP & ASP etc, except for in France and Canada...
WebDev engine is only necessary if you want the full rich feature set available under WebDev's technology. If u output to PHP u wont need it, just the PHP gubbins that your Host probably already has. So if u want near desktop richness u need the WebDev engine
Although WebDev Engine is available for Linux and Windows, they are not the same on functionality. The windows implementation is much fuller, with the Linux implementation at this time not supporting PDF output nor reporting
Have fun
Make money |
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Posté le 02 juin 2005 - 05:12 |
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Posté le 02 juin 2005 - 05:14 |
This is starting to smell like a runtime. One of the reasons I chose windev was because of lack of runtimes. |
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Posté le 02 juin 2005 - 05:21 |
Well I suppose this is PC SOFT's equiv of ASP engine or ASP.net
Its getting Host Co. to install thats the problem. I can live with the cost for the functionality it will give
http://www.objeKtive.com |
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Posté le 02 juin 2005 - 07:07 |
If you purchase a product you should be able to use that product without having to buy another product to deploy.
That would be like charging extra for native access to hyperfiles Bells and whistles are only great if you can get to them. I will wait until I see the final cost of deploying a webdev application.
joe |
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Posté le 02 juin 2005 - 08:46 |
>on the FR site its listed at €299 and the upgrade I think was about €99
And you had to buy for every server?
If yes, are there any fees or discounts for the developer when he sells these deployments?
TIA, Teun. |
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Posté le 02 juin 2005 - 10:22 |
If you purchase a product you should be able to use that product without having to buy another product to deploy.
That would be like charging extra for native access to hyperfiles Bells and whistles are only great if you can get to them. I will wait until I see the final cost of deploying a webdev application.
joe
Hi Joe,
WebDev offers abilities better than most any other web technology. Results are comparable with a good ASP program, but time to market is not.
WebDev is NOT for the occasional webpage, not even for a webpage with some integrated forms. WebDev brings a full application (e-commerce, POS, government, big business ..) to the web. Some customers using WebDev are listed on PC Soft's French web site: Porsche, the French Post authority, Shell and many more. In addition, one can actually test some sites made with WebDev.
I'm used to SELL my applications, I do not give them away for free. So, customers should pay for the WebDev engine. Prices for large individual e-commerce solutions are offered in the range of 10.000 - 300.000 Euros per piece. If one can slash the time for development of such a site to half of that necessary with ASP (I do not talk about a tenth  ) and still charge 3/4 of it - it's good business and a good cpompetition to ASP. I think, no one would care abot 299,- Euros for the WB-runtime within an offer of 50.000,- Euros Grand Total. Especially not, if the price of the competition is 70.000,-
One WB runtime (= 1 dongle) is needed per server. If a customer has 10 web applications on their server, only one runtime is needed.
I'd recommend to run your own web server in your own office for development and demonstrations of WebDev applications (SDSL with a 1024kbit connection and a simple PC with two mirrored hard disks and Windows 2000 server + Kerio mail server should suffice).
I think, a software company/department has to be specialized in web applications in order to get the full reward for offering WebDev solutions. As I said, WebDev is not for the small home page, WebDev would be the tool to make sites like Amazon's and the like. This is not small business and no one cares about 299,- for a runtime - if you care to put it on the invoice anyway.
There will be enough servers to offer WebDev functionality in while. Last year, somewhere I've seen such a list of servers (in French) but I cannot remember.
Kind regards,
Guenter |
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Posté le 02 juin 2005 - 11:32 |
Hello Guenter,
I'm a bit disappointed to hear that the engine is working
with a dongle. This leaves out the opportunity to put the developed
sites on, let's say, a rented server where you can't get physical access to.
The only option then, is to put things on a server at the clients site with
a relative slow DSL-connection.
Greetings,
Aad
If you purchase a product you should be able to use that product without having to buy another product to deploy.
That would be like charging extra for native access to hyperfiles Bells and whistles are only great if you can get to them. I will wait until I see the final cost of deploying a webdev application.
joe
Hi Joe, WebDev offers abilities better than most any other web technology. Results are comparable with a good ASP program, but time to market is not. WebDev is NOT for the occasional webpage, not even for a webpage with some integrated forms. WebDev brings a full application (e-commerce, POS, government, big business ..) to the web. Some customers using WebDev are listed on PC Soft's French web site: Porsche, the French Post authority, Shell and many more. In addition, one can actually test some sites made with WebDev. I'm used to SELL my applications, I do not give them away for free. So, customers should pay for the WebDev engine. Prices for large individual e-commerce solutions are offered in the range of 10.000 - 300.000 Euros per piece. If one can slash the time for development of such a site to half of that necessary with ASP (I do not talk about a tenth ) and still charge 3/4 of it - it's good business and a good cpompetition to ASP. I think, no one would care abot 299,- Euros for the WB-runtime within an offer of 50.000,- Euros Grand Total. Especially not, if the price of the competition is 70.000,- One WB runtime (= 1 dongle) is needed per server. If a customer has 10 web applications on their server, only one runtime is needed. I'd recommend to run your own web server in your own office for development and demonstrations of WebDev applications (SDSL with a 1024kbit connection and a simple PC with two mirrored hard disks and Windows 2000 server + Kerio mail server should suffice). I think, a software company/department has to be specialized in web applications in order to get the full reward for offering WebDev solutions. As I said, WebDev is not for the small home page, WebDev would be the tool to make sites like Amazon's and the like. This is not small business and no one cares about 299,- for a runtime - if you care to put it on the invoice anyway. There will be enough servers to offer WebDev functionality in while. Last year, somewhere I've seen such a list of servers (in French) but I cannot remember. Kind regards, Guenter |
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Posté le 02 juin 2005 - 11:52 |
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Posté le 02 juin 2005 - 12:17 |
Hello Guenter, I'm a bit disappointed to hear that the engine is working with a dongle. This leaves out the opportunity to put the developed sites on, let's say, a rented server where you can't get physical access to. The only option then, is to put things on a server at the clients site with a relative slow DSL-connection. Greetings, Aad If you purchase a product you should be able to use that product without having to buy another product to deploy.
That would be like charging extra for native access to hyperfiles Bells and whistles are only great if you can get to them. I will wait until I see the final cost of deploying a webdev application.
joe
Hi Joe, WebDev offers abilities better than most any other web technology. Results are comparable with a good ASP program, but time to market is not. WebDev is NOT for the occasional webpage, not even for a webpage with some integrated forms. WebDev brings a full application (e-commerce, POS, government, big business ..) to the web. Some customers using WebDev are listed on PC Soft's French web site: Porsche, the French Post authority, Shell and many more. In addition, one can actually test some sites made with WebDev. I'm used to SELL my applications, I do not give them away for free. So, customers should pay for the WebDev engine. Prices for large individual e-commerce solutions are offered in the range of 10.000 - 300.000 Euros per piece. If one can slash the time for development of such a site to half of that necessary with ASP (I do not talk about a tenth ) and still charge 3/4 of it - it's good business and a good cpompetition to ASP. I think, no one would care abot 299,- Euros for the WB-runtime within an offer of 50.000,- Euros Grand Total. Especially not, if the price of the competition is 70.000,- One WB runtime (= 1 dongle) is needed per server. If a customer has 10 web applications on their server, only one runtime is needed. I'd recommend to run your own web server in your own office for development and demonstrations of WebDev applications (SDSL with a 1024kbit connection and a simple PC with two mirrored hard disks and Windows 2000 server + Kerio mail server should suffice). I think, a software company/department has to be specialized in web applications in order to get the full reward for offering WebDev solutions. As I said, WebDev is not for the small home page, WebDev would be the tool to make sites like Amazon's and the like. This is not small business and no one cares about 299,- for a runtime - if you care to put it on the invoice anyway. There will be enough servers to offer WebDev functionality in while. Last year, somewhere I've seen such a list of servers (in French) but I cannot remember. Kind regards, Guenter
Hey Aad,
the WebDev Deploiement you use on the webserver has no dongle at all. You get a licencenumber and serial number to install it. We have a webserver rented by an ISP and it's located in a secured datacenter, different from the ISP office. I've never seen the server, I'v uploaded the CD-ROM and installation is done by the ISP.
If you have more questions, just call me or send me a mail.
Kind regards, Xavier
WinDev Developers Group Belgium-Netherlands |
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Posté le 02 juin 2005 - 12:55 |
Hey Xavier,
Did I misread Guenter's posting?
I'm glad you cleared this up. I have the intention to rent my own Windows-server
with the Webdev Deploiment on it, so I can host my customers myself.
If I have any questions I will certainly accept your kind offer.
Greetings,
Aad
Hello Guenter, I'm a bit disappointed to hear that the engine is working with a dongle. This leaves out the opportunity to put the developed sites on, let's say, a rented server where you can't get physical access to. The only option then, is to put things on a server at the clients site with a relative slow DSL-connection. Greetings, Aad If you purchase a product you should be able to use that product without having to buy another product to deploy.
That would be like charging extra for native access to hyperfiles Bells and whistles are only great if you can get to them. I will wait until I see the final cost of deploying a webdev application.
joe
Hi Joe, WebDev offers abilities better than most any other web technology. Results are comparable with a good ASP program, but time to market is not. WebDev is NOT for the occasional webpage, not even for a webpage with some integrated forms. WebDev brings a full application (e-commerce, POS, government, big business ..) to the web. Some customers using WebDev are listed on PC Soft's French web site: Porsche, the French Post authority, Shell and many more. In addition, one can actually test some sites made with WebDev. I'm used to SELL my applications, I do not give them away for free. So, customers should pay for the WebDev engine. Prices for large individual e-commerce solutions are offered in the range of 10.000 - 300.000 Euros per piece. If one can slash the time for development of such a site to half of that necessary with ASP (I do not talk about a tenth ) and still charge 3/4 of it - it's good business and a good cpompetition to ASP. I think, no one would care abot 299,- Euros for the WB-runtime within an offer of 50.000,- Euros Grand Total. Especially not, if the price of the competition is 70.000,- One WB runtime (= 1 dongle) is needed per server. If a customer has 10 web applications on their server, only one runtime is needed. I'd recommend to run your own web server in your own office for development and demonstrations of WebDev applications (SDSL with a 1024kbit connection and a simple PC with two mirrored hard disks and Windows 2000 server + Kerio mail server should suffice). I think, a software company/department has to be specialized in web applications in order to get the full reward for offering WebDev solutions. As I said, WebDev is not for the small home page, WebDev would be the tool to make sites like Amazon's and the like. This is not small business and no one cares about 299,- for a runtime - if you care to put it on the invoice anyway. There will be enough servers to offer WebDev functionality in while. Last year, somewhere I've seen such a list of servers (in French) but I cannot remember. Kind regards, Guenter Hey Aad, the WebDev Deploiement you use on the webserver has no dongle at all. You get a licencenumber and serial number to install it. We have a webserver rented by an ISP and it's located in a secured datacenter, different from the ISP office. I've never seen the server, I'v uploaded the CD-ROM and installation is done by the ISP. If you have more questions, just call me or send me a mail. Kind regards, Xavier |
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Posté le 02 juin 2005 - 15:25 |
Guenter,
It is not the price but the potential trend I am concerned with. I came to Windev from a product that used runtimes… runtimes that eventually rose in price to the point of nearly $750.00 per user per application.
Maybe I am frustrated by my lack of ability in French and PcSoft’s lack of ability in communicating with its non French speaking clients.
I have been looking forward to Webdev. I have assumed that PcSoft was continuing its policy of offering a product free from other fees if deployed.
I realize that PcSoft charges for native accesss,etc but I can still deploy a Windev app and use all of the wonderful features that Windev gives me for no extra charge.
I feel the rules of the game have been changed. Changed slightly but a change that could lead to more drastic ones.
joe |
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Posté le 02 juin 2005 - 16:07 |
Hi Joe,
no there isn't such a trend!! Note, that even WebDev 1.5 did have this deployment motor, and the price was EURO 309,-. You can buy 200 licences from PC SOFT for EURO 37 for a single version. IMHO, the trend goes in another direction. WebDev PHP has support for more than 150 W-Language functions. It's the same as with Java code, the number of supported W-Language functions grows with every new version/build.
Just my 0.02
Raimund
Guenter,
It is not the price but the potential trend I am concerned with. I came to Windev from a product that used runtimes… runtimes that eventually rose in price to the point of nearly $750.00 per user per application.
Maybe I am frustrated by my lack of ability in French and PcSoft’s lack of ability in communicating with its non French speaking clients.
I have been looking forward to Webdev. I have assumed that PcSoft was continuing its policy of offering a product free from other fees if deployed.
I realize that PcSoft charges for native accesss,etc but I can still deploy a Windev app and use all of the wonderful features that Windev gives me for no extra charge.
I feel the rules of the game have been changed. Changed slightly but a change that could lead to more drastic ones.
joe
http://www.invitec.com |
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Posté le 02 juin 2005 - 16:19 |
Hi Xavier
That is excellent news, thanks for telling us this
The free PHP option should give enough capability for low to middlling websites
and then one can always re-compile to the WebDev engine for sites that would justify it on both usefullness and cost grounds
http://www.objeKtive.com |
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