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| Polemic criticism about windev |
| Iniciado por guest, fev., 13 2014 9:23 AM - 14 respostas |
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| Publicado em fevereiro, 13 2014 - 9:23 AM |
Hi,
I readed this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3040413/windev-user-standpoi
The point is, some years ago when I used windev for first ime, I had the same feeling, all just marketing mainly. With webdev and mobile nearly unusable,support inexistent, just new versions with nearly "1000" new features every year.
Some years later something changed?
I see still without exists LST on other language than French. And all about marketing and sexy girls. Still seeing a lot of bugs don't resolved since some versions, no new success stories (are porche, playmobil, jhon Deere and so on still using windev? )
I ask mainly because we are thinking to come back to windev, and don't want to do a bad decission,because want to focus our web desktop and mobile new projects on PCSoft suite.
I know this is not maybe the more objetive place to ask.
Regards. |
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| Publicado em fevereiro, 13 2014 - 9:56 AM |
Well I feel for you. See my comments elsewhere in this forum.
click here. |
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| Publicado em fevereiro, 13 2014 - 10:15 AM |
Hi GiuDev
I have used Windev Mobile ande Webdev (and a little Windev) for a little over 1 year now. Before this it was Clarion and a handfull of other languages for a couple of decades.
I maintain my old apps in Clarion but all new development are in WXdev.
Why ??
Well in the world of today it is not enough to develop to a PC. You have to consider cloud, smartphones, webservices etc etc. And no matter what I consider is possible in WX. I'm just finishing a project involving a cloudserver with a web app (WB), webservices (WB) and an android app (WM). All made with WX18, same language, same database, no expensive 3rd part templates.
Everything works ???
No. Not in WX and Not in any other language. But no matter what problems I have run into, there seems to be many ways to work around them. As with other languages, the more you use it, the better / faster you find alternative routes.
Support ?
Well, you have this forum, webinars, a good online help, free and paid support (and not only in French languaage), LST (still French only, but I guess/hope they are working on an English version).
999 new features ?
I see it as a great thing. The world changes every day. We have to change every day too. How about a programming tool which do not have anything new in, say 7 years, Scaring isnt it ?
Sexy girls ?
Please. What is wrong with a that ? I dont think it is more inspiring with pictures of pc's, tablets, offices. Remember where WX is made. France, the land of romance. The one time I sat with a glass of wine on Mont Matre, Paris, I surely understood their reputy.
So all in all. Definately many more positives than negatives. But remember, this is just My point of view.
Best regards
Viggo Poulsen
Denmark. |
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| Publicado em fevereiro, 13 2014 - 10:42 AM |
Hi,
you have to be more specific, I think.
If your question is " can I use pcsoft products to develop websites and app" then the answer is yes.
If you ask "is it useable for a game-app" the answer is no.
So please tell us wat kind of sites/apps you are into. |
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| Publicado em fevereiro, 13 2014 - 2:43 PM |
Hi
The good tool is the tool that you choose and that you like.
It is totally subjective.
My opinion is that Wxxdev is very good for people with double-cursus : people with high level in their job... their 1st job is not dev, but they finally work in dev.
For this group of people, WxxDev is maybe the best.
But for other people, for geeks who venerate Java or C++, this group of people consider that Wxxdev is not a professionnal tool. Maybe they don't like a tool which allows other people to developp and obtain good results easily.
If your domain is standard (commerce, school ... ... ) , if you do not need very high level of technology, if your team is not composed with geeks, but with various people, Wxxdev is perfect for you. |
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| Publicado em fevereiro, 13 2014 - 2:53 PM |
Hi GiuDev,
I would never had purchased WinDev it they not had the sexy girls in their brochure, I did not care what problems I could solve with the product.
Just glanced at the girls, and signed the purchase order while still in a pink haze whatever small-text printed on it - That`s how we do business up here in Norway! 
Cheers
Tor-Bjarne |
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| Publicado em fevereiro, 13 2014 - 3:01 PM |
Quote
Arie Mars
Hi,
you have to be more specific, I think.
If your question is " can I use pcsoft products to develop websites and app" then the answer is yes.
If you ask "is it useable for a game-app" the answer is no.
So please tell us wat kind of sites/apps you are into.
Hi Arie..I don't talk about what is capable to do WX, I worked with it (mainly Windev), and I like it very much...but if what they announces, works it's the important thing. Otherwise, we make custom-made solutions, and curiously, one of the jobs we have to do is a little mobile social game ..but just some images interacting, but mainly, we focus on business management solutions. Now I have to take a decision, if buy Windev or not, and for this reason I'm reading all info I can
About topic, I remember in the past, see a lot of features in brochures, and then half of then working properly, after 2 versions, still seeing in this forums people complaining about not working, and so on..this are the things I ask for. Still surpised about not having core support to json but girls looks cute 
After some years out of Windev development, don't know what are new features, and wich of them works...Dont know if Android deployment is working as should, or if iOS deployment is just a "feature" to sell, but don't work as expected and so on....don't know If PCSoft are more focused on marketing issues than on the tools they sell.
It's sad to say, but windev is "famous " for the interminable and fake new features every year, and cute girls, instead to be a powerful development environment.
Viggo, maybe we can ask to girls what they thinks about a development tool who's marketing is focused on "bikinis" instead real killer features |
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| Publicado em fevereiro, 13 2014 - 3:02 PM |
Hi Tor-Bjarne
Once again Norway and Denmark are very much alike 
Best regards
Viggo Poulsen
Denmark |
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| Publicado em fevereiro, 13 2014 - 3:45 PM |
@Viggo
On the serious side, I also have .NET - but when you are spoiled on WinDev`s feature rich gui like me, I find it hard to start a .net project unless client requiers mee to. And eaven then I tell him this will take 30% longer to complete.
Windev Mobile - Some features are lacking, but the product is upgraded each year with more features on each platform, not a big problem as long as I get the job done.
Cheers
Tor-Bjarne |
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| Publicado em fevereiro, 13 2014 - 3:49 PM |
Hi GiuDev
it seems to me that if you start like that, there is absolutely NO POINT in you buying a license from PCSoft... During the last 20 years, I have seen several cases of people starting their tryout with that attitude... Believe me when I say that there is absolutely no point in wasting your time if you think what you seem to be thinking.
As for me, I'm one of the french guys so taken by the girls in bikini that I have paid an upgrade for my licenses each and every year for the last 20 years (except for the few years when there was not an update available and I started to feel like a clarion user... sorry guys, couldn't resist
So clearly, and like nearly everybody else on this forum, I must be delusional in thinking that you can develop professional applications with those tools
And I did ask ONE woman (my wife) what she thought about the girls in bikini... She laughed about it (and she's the one using the annual/lst calendar full of them)... Maybe french women are less constipated... who knows...
Best regards |
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| Publicado em fevereiro, 13 2014 - 4:42 PM |
Hi Fabrice,
Maybe I don't explained correctly. I'm not at all who is criticing Windev suite. As I mentioned, I worked in the past with Windev, and I was very satisfied with it,but I just used Windev, not Webdev or Windev Mobile, and I readed a lot of bad considerations about Webdev and Mobile on production, for this reason I ask to people who work with this tools every day.
Regards. |
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| Publicado em fevereiro, 14 2014 - 1:50 AM |
| I'd like to say that this morning I had a call from a Customer and at the end of the day a Rich, Useful and Complete Application was working with no bugs after many tests. I was not an ERP, but an app for managing documents with lots of funcionalities. As I did not find any bug or problem at all, sent to their computers and they used and told everything worked fine. I also became impressed, but using another tool it could not be done so fast. Now with the dreamed "between" for filtering dates in tables, I thing I will love it. I also like the brochure girls very much. |
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| Publicado em fevereiro, 14 2014 - 8:12 AM |
Hi Luiz,
congratulations! Once more this one shows the difference between the two main groups of programmers, which basically are supporters and dispraisers of Wx-products as well.
group 1 understands that they have to earn their money with software products and therefore they try to get their products as fast as possible from order to market. Wx products are made for this group!
group 2 doesn't care at all for time, manpower and expense to make a product. I call them the 'freaks'. Maybe, for some small parts of a project those freaks are even needed, but don't let freaks take control of the whole development process! (there's even a good book on that: 'The Inmates Are Running the Asylum' by Alan Cooper, yes, it's him, the inventor of Visual Basic). Ok, naturally, freaks don't understand the economics behind a successful software business and invariably will destroy projects by selecting strange databases, inventing inconsistent UIs, prefer to use complex programming languages, despise documenting their work and believe that testing an application is superfluous, because their brilliant work doesn't need any tests. Those are the critics of Wx products, often a very noisy community. |
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| Publicado em fevereiro, 14 2014 - 6:03 PM |
hi GiuDev
If new versions with nearly "1000" new features every year, without exists LST on other language than French and some bugs not corrected from version to version are the most important thing for you don't waste time with this products.
If you main concern is making data driven application in a resonable time and price use some of your time to download and test the free versions and and you will see that it worth the effort.
Unfortunatly there is no Webdev free version.
We use this products mainly because of the AAF , multi db type access, the chance to do almost everything without 3th party products, multi thread support, dynamic compilation and the most important one for us ease / speed of development vs. final result & outcome.
But as you can imagine our apps are all data driven, for the other types of use i can't tell anything. |
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| Publicado em fevereiro, 16 2014 - 8:23 PM |
Hi all
Just one of the facts (amoung many, many others) I decided to take the risk and develop in WD all of the software that I sell.
http://www.pcsoft-windev-webdev.com/interview/honda/index.html
Just take some minutes to see this. I do not speak french but you can put subtitles and then traslate them with the YouTube window.
I can not believe that "Honda" is using WDx if PCSoft was not serious enough to have such a big customer.
Sorry a little late. Just my personal opinión....
James. |
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