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| Iniciado por guest, 17,dic. 2015 11:41 - 8 respuestas |
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| Publicado el 17,diciembre 2015 - 11:41 |
Hi,
I would like to know how many users a dynamic webdev site can take When the app server is installed on a vps windows box.
when is it recommended to use awp pages
Thanks
Allard |
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| Publicado el 17,diciembre 2015 - 12:16 |
Hello Allard
1. how many users: it depends of:
- the server processing power
- the server amount of memory
- the load on the DB
- the hard drive speed
- the code of your project
So basically, it's impossible to answer your question.
2. AWP pages are necessary for:
- SEO
- Direct access (rest web service)
That's why in the modern version of webdev, they are calling the classing mode intranet/extranet (ie perfect for a company/internal site, where no SEO is necessary, and everything goes through the initial login, and the awp mode the INTERNET mode, ie regular general population web site.
Of course, it is possible to mix and match, but there is a whole new sets of problems when you do that.
Best regards |
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| Publicado el 17,diciembre 2015 - 16:13 |
Hi Fabrie.
I get that. what I mean to ask:
If I build a website that wil host a software as a service kind of software. (Each client will have their own database.)
It will be software where clients can manage the site . They can manage the back office. for instance of an insurance company.
The clients will have customers that can calculate the cost of an insurance and ask for an estimate.
And they can what kind of insurance they have and they can see their invoices as well etc
If I get what you mean then I should mix dynamic webdev with AWP. ( AWP for when the clients customers logs in , for the number of users is larger) managing the back office dynamic webdev ?
Or can it all be done by dynamic webdev even if I would have 2000 users simultaniously?
The main question is . Is there a limit to the numer of concurent users when using dynamic webdev. and what would that be ?
Using a normal vps with say 8GB memory and 8 CPU vCores running SSD/HDD
regards
Allard |
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| Publicado el 17,diciembre 2015 - 17:18 |
Hey Allard,
You can start with a single VPS but that will also be a single point of failure and I have no idea what the guidelines form PCSoft are for their WAS regarding load and sizing.
You will need to look at concurrent usage, (page) requests per minute, average (page) load volume, multi-threading in your app, etc...
All my WB web apps are pretty limited in nr of concurrent requests so I can do with a single machine.
If you need high scalability (add processing power and thus (virtual) machines as you need them without altering your apps) with high availability (almost no downtime) you will need to look at a clustered environment with fail-over and load balancing.
I never implemented the PCSoft WAS on a clustered environment with load balancing so I don't know if there are any caveats. Certainly your load balancer will need a 'sticky sessions' algorithm for users to be directed to the same WAS in order to not loose their context. In a failover high availability environment, the WAS servers on the differents nodes in the cluster will even need to exchange/share their session contexts in order for the failover to be seamless from an end-user point of view...
As you see, there is a lot of food for thought and infrastructural design options and all come of course with their own price tag...
Just my 2 cents,
P. |
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| Publicado el 17,diciembre 2015 - 19:24 |
Quote
Allard
I get that. what I mean to ask:
No clearly you don't 
Quote
Allard
If I get what you mean then I should mix dynamic webdev with AWP. ( AWP for when the clients customers logs in , for the number of users is larger) managing the back office dynamic webdev ?
As I was saying before, what you describe can be done either way. AWP=SEO and direct access, classic = NOT SEO, that's THE big diference.
Quote
Allard
Or can it all be done by dynamic webdev even if I would have 2000 users simultaniously?
The main question is . Is there a limit to the numer of concurent users when using dynamic webdev. and what would that be ?
Using a normal vps with say 8GB memory and 8 CPU vCores running SSD/HDD
AWP vs classic has nothing to do with the number of concurrent users. Constraints are different in each case:
in classic, you have a session loaded in memory for each user, which means more ram needed
in awp, you will re-execute the project init code for each page, and reload data many times, as there is no context remaining between pages, therefore more disk access.
So awp and classic just modify where the bottleneck is, that's all.
As for the max number of concurrent sessions, it depends of YOUR APPLICATION. You wouldn't ask that question for the number of concurrent users on a network with a windev application. Well it's the same thing here. Your server is going to be limited by all the factors I already gave you way before it is limited by IIS or webdev.
As for load balancing, it is possible (we did it with a webdev 11 web site, a few years back), but that's a server configuration problem,not a webdev one.
Best regards |
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| Publicado el 18,diciembre 2015 - 12:03 |
Hello,
Sorry to intruder.
I think Allard is asking as to how well will WAS scale and how much resources (like for example RAM. processors, HDD space, etc.) are required if there are 2000+ concurrent users at any point of time and there are multiple web site that WAS has to handle.
Am I right Allard?
HTH |
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| Publicado el 18,diciembre 2015 - 13:46 |
I understand what he is asking, and I answered it TWICE...
It's the same question than asking how many user you can support on a network before the server crashes... it depends on THE APPLICATION, the DATA ACCESS, the AMOUNT OF MEMORY, the HARD DRIVE SPEED and so on...
it's the SAME THING FOR A WEBDEV SITE. |
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| Publicado el 18,diciembre 2015 - 16:38 |
Hi Allard,
I have a similar configuration as you describe:
E.g. I have a system for tennisclubs that uses a databases for each club.
For access to the administrative tools I use a dynamic site, this is accessed by a limited group of users, atm about 40 or 50.
These users use the system intensively for a longer period of time, sometimes for several hours.
For the club members I tend to use AWP where possible, there are about 4000 club members that enlist online for all kinds of activities, update their data etc.
They use the system for a short time, but often all at once in the same period of time.
As they are not prone to logout properly, I'm avoiding open connections by using AWP.
That way these users use a minimum of resources.
For security I'm using an encrypted parameter string that contains all parameters: identity, page parameters and current date and time).
So if someone should log in again at a later time using the same link with the same parameter, the link will no longer be valid.
This way I don't have any performance issues sofar.
However when using AJAX tables I just have to use dynamic sites, because I never succeeded in getting these to work in AWP.
Well, they work, but only in a "static" way (display only), the row selection code is useless in AWP.
If anyone found a way to create an AWP page using an AJAX master and slave table: he/she will be my hero.
Regards,
Piet |
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| Publicado el 19,diciembre 2015 - 13:09 |
Yes Yogi
That was my question.
Fabrice. I donnot need all the details. I just need to know if things are possible. I need to figger out if I can use webdev at all.
I could use an other tool as well. Or not use the application server and use php modus?
Php modus is limited but if I read it right in version 21 it has the charts as well? PHP modus has session management and SEO on pages etc. But is limited, it has no pdf generation export to excel etc. But I have had a php site running ( webdev 18 )on a .50 cent hosting account and that worked fine with 75 concurrent users. Yes I could not believe it worked but it did.
As I see it it is not just programming with webdev. There is a lot more to it. So Maybe using a tool like wakanda is a better option? The thing is I love wlanguage;)
Well thanks for the info. I have till the end of the year desiding what to do, Yep regarding to pricing ha ha
Have a nice weekend you all
regards
Allard |
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